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June 23
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If you hold the door open for me,
I hope it's because it's a decent thing to do
And nothing to do with my gender.
If you buy me a drink,
Expect me to do the same for you.

I'll cook for you
(If you don't mind burnt food)
And I'll clean for you
(If you'll return the favour).
Not because I'm a woman,
But because it's a nice thing to do.

If you're nice to me,
It's not a ticket for sex.
If I'm nice to you,
Sex doesn't always come next.

If we go for a meal,
I want to split the bill.
I don't expect you
To sing to me,
Whilst climbing through my window sill.

I don't care if you've had sex or not,
As long as it's the same for me.
I don't want diamond rings,
Don't get down on one knee

I don't owe you anything
And you owe me nothing.
My gender is not entitlement,
And neither is yours.

If I'm drunk, I can't consent,
And I'll love you more for not doing it.
If you hit me, I'll leave you,
And if I hit you, it's just as wrong.

If I cry in front of you,
I don't expect you to fix everything.
If you cry in front of me,
I'll do everything I can to fix it.

If I wear 'too little'
Don't tell me to change.
You can wear whatever you want,
And I won't think it strange.

If I say no, that's what I mean,
And don't be scared to say no to me.
Understand that you don't own me,
We are people. We are free.
I haven't written anything feministy in ages, and we've been studying Carol Ann Duffy in English, so here we are.
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:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Aug 7, 2014
Why would anyone want to court a Feminist?
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:iconsymmetricshinigami:
SymmetricShinigami Featured By Owner Aug 16, 2014
Because they want a relationship with someone who actually values both men and women. 
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:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner Aug 25, 2014
Many non-Feminists value both men and women, what on Earth are you talking about. In fact MOST people value men and women. 
That is why we all have equal rights and equal laws protecting us and share the same burdens. We all have the same opportunities. All this talk does is throw false flgs around. It is like talking about how there are murderers in society and we do not know what goes on in their minds or which of us may be a murderer in their lifetime. 

*LOOKS AT EACH OF YOUR USERNAMES AND WORRIES IS ANY OF YOU GOING TO GO POSTAL*

False threat narratives are what feeds Feminism.
Reply
:iconfearofinfinity:
FearOfInfinity Featured By Owner Edited 4 days ago  New member Student Traditional Artist
'Why would anyone want to court a Feminist?' -- What a way to brand someone, dear lord. Why would anyone want to court anyone? I don't know. Maybe because of this thing called love? 

Also, men can also be feminists (to be fair, if you value equal gender rights, you are a feminist, whether you like it or not), so some of your points don't really add up. 

Still, I hope you can see how your first comment was offensive, especially to someone like me, who is a feminist. Also, if most people value both men and women, they could pretty much (judging by what you said) be feminists, too. Why would anyone want to court them? 

You very literally implied that people wouldn't want to court feminists because they are, in fact, feminists. ...Can't you see how bad that sounds for you? I don't want to put you down, but I do hope you respect what I've said, and really do think about what you're saying in future before you talk out against a group of people, saying they're not wanted in relationships. 

I personally don't agree with all the points in this poem, no matter whether the author is feminist or not (which I guess she is), so as you can see, even among feminists we have different views.
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:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner 4 days ago
I certainly make no apologies and I have thought far more than you about Feminism. 

I literally implied that Feminists are not worth dating BECAUSE Feminists are not worth dating. 

"to be fair, if you value equal gender rights, you are a feminist, whether you like it or not". No, this is simply untrue and IF you believe it is true, then you are ignorant, whether you like it or not. 

Now I know that you can run to the dictionary and point to the dictionary definition of "Feminist" and quote it verbatim and jump up and down saying "Look here, it says..."

But there is a problem with this. IF this was ALL Feminism was, there would be virtually no backlash against it. MOST people are happy with females having the same rights and choices as men, and females do have this in Western societies. 
Feminism is NOT about gender equality and never was. Not since the very early Suffragettes that shamed young men and boys off to a war (white feather campaign) that the ladies would never have to fight and die for and the early Feminist who invented the "Tender Years Doctrine" that men still suffer under. 

Can you name ONE thing that Feminists have done exclusively for the benefit of men in areas of inequality of the genders, where the inequality favours the female? I will give you 60 years of Feminism (that is supposedly all for gender equality) to think about. 
No? Really? Yet you tell me IF I DO believe in gender equality that I MUST be a Feminist? 

Feminism is a poisonous ideology that is built around false victim narratives and feeds on fears, insecurities and ignorance. It is the biggest conjob of the last 100 years and I am supposed to value the people that promote it. WHY?

I value women enough to not pretend they are victims with little to no agency and with the inability to make constructive choices in their life. I value women enough to see them as individuals with no need to be condescended to and treated like children who cannot make their own way in the world, or as victims of systematic, oppressive culture of man on women abuse. 

I value men enough to know that they are not the systematic bullying oppressors that Feminists paint them to be, 

Equity Feminists (Those Feminists in name only that do believe in equality of gender, but serve only to give Feminism a good name and do not affect the social changes in response to Feminism), I have no time for, but are of not worth my notice. Radical Feminists that promote culling of men and whatever, are likewise not worth my time nor worth my notice. They are too crazy to be noticed. 

The mainstream Feminists are the ones that effect social change and they are the ones that are dangerous. They paint society in ways that are misleading, dishonest and harmful and then base victim narratives around these erroneous conclusions and petition for change. THAT is not constructive.

So now, tell me how you imagine why I or anyone with any morality and brains and good taste WOULD want to court a Feminist? 
Reply
:iconfearofinfinity:
FearOfInfinity Featured By Owner 2 days ago  New member Student Traditional Artist
I know feminism had has a bad past, but that's not why I believe in it. Female sexists are NOT feminists, so I don't know why people only focus on them. I support feminism because I believe in equal gender rights, not because I'm some bra-burning idiot. I'm also an equalist. Like you said, in western society men and women are pretty equal now, which is definitely a good start, by all means. Also, by definition, if you believe in equal gender rights you're a feminist. That's why some of those sexists you mentioned just don't fit the definition. (Although they think they do. ;-;) 

And, anyone could want to court a feminist. I still find that offensive, and I still don't entirely understand why you even made that remark. Some people fall in love. (Actually, a lot of people do). Sometimes they fall in love with a feminist. It's simple as that. 

Also, I'm not really trying to be aggressive or start some argument. I'm simply standing up for feminists, being one myself. Why shouldn't people want to love us? I've had boyfriends before. It's such an awful thing to say, and I hope you see that some people really can take that offensively.
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:icongrumpyoldrossco:
GrumpyOldRossco Featured By Owner 2 days ago
No, I still don't. 
Let me put it in slightly more pointed terms. Let's say I was to say "I am a member of the KKK. But don't worry, I am not one of those horrible racists that give the KKK a bad image and I know they have had a bad rap in the past, but I simply have a natural camaraderie with white people. I do not really object to black people, but I only date white people because I am attracted to white people and like hanging out with my white friends and the KKK allows me access to these people and to people that like white people", you would have EVERY right to think rather dismissively of me in respect to my attachment (however slight) to the KKK and their poisonous ideology. 

Feminism, likewise, is poison.

You can call yourself a Feminist by all means, but there is nothing moral or good or nice about doing so. In the same way as there is nothing nice moral or good about calling yourself a member of the KKK. 

You may be making the common error of believing that aligning yourself with Feminism is simply saying "I believe in equality of the genders". It isn't. It SO is not. In the same way, aligning yourself with the KKK is not about "hanging out with white people" or "supporting white people". You may not see the similarity and I am not sure it is my place to show you or to try to point out that calling yourself a Feminist or sticking up for them does not make me any better disposed to you. It does not make me dislike you, but makes you dismissible. 

The thing with Feminism is not only is the dictionary definition of Feminism not one that works does not and has never worked in practice, but the radical Feminists are not the ones that are problematic. 
Do you HONESTLY believe that ANYONE takes the radical Feminists seriously or that they are any problem? Really? The nutjobs who wrote the SCUM Maifesto or Valerie Solanus or the crazies that talk about "culling" 90% of men?
Who cares about them? Not any Anti-feminist I know. 
They are beneath contempt or concern. I do not know why Feminists bring them up like they are a concern. 

MAINSTREAM Feminists are where the problem lies. They are the ones who inform social change and who bit by bit hurt society through the men in society that they demonise and who shackle Females through a bondage of false oppression and victim narratives an inhibit agency in Females. 

Equity Feminists who are the smiling face of Feminism who are just touting a worn out line of "I am a Feminist because i believe in gender equality" are of no impact or effect in the Feminist movement really ought to either get on board with Feminists and properly commit to the poison done their name OR join with Anti-feminists in exposing what is done in the name of Feminism. This playing at calling Feminism equality when around them things are done in the name of Feminism that are nothing about equality and them not doing anything makes Equity Feminists of no more consequence than the Radical Feminists. 

Again, what exactly ought I feel bad about or apologise for. 

For what it is worth. You seem nice enough, but I think you do not really appreciate the extent of Feminism and your friend in Feminism are not your friends. Better have someone like me tell you uncomfortable truths than comfortable lies. 
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:iconfearofinfinity:
FearOfInfinity Featured By Owner 2 days ago  New member Student Traditional Artist
I do understand where you're coming from. But I don't care about making a difference in the name of Feminism. In western society, as you said, it's practically sorted now. I don't care about the movement or whatever. I simply believe in equality amongst all people, because who wouldn't? Which nice person wouldn't? 

I don't care about where it's been or where it's going. I have feminist friends who're lovely, and are loved by those around them. I suppose, by what you said, I'm an equity feminist. Yes, I do ignore the bad that comes from feminism. Why? Because I'm not part of that bad. Female sexists can do what they want.

I'd like to make a difference, but I'm merely one person. Judging by what you're saying, you're saying to be a feminist, you have to accept all those idiots and contribute with the movement and blegh. But I could believe in Christianity and not go to church. It's just my personal belief, and if feminism and equalist are the correct terms, I'll use them. I know it's had a bad reputation, but of course, there's also some good people there who I care for greatly. Saying people wouldn't want to love those people upset me, because I love them very much. 

I'm not standing up for the idiots that you get in every community or group of people, I'm standing up for the goodies, you know? 

At first I wasn't certain, but you don't seem like a bad person yourself. I want to use these terms, not because I want to join some crazy bra-burning, anti-men movement some people call it, but because it's the dictionary definition. It's the correct term, and I like it. 
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(1 Reply)
:iconwakaflockaflame1:
wakaflockaflame1 Featured By Owner Edited Aug 12, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
True dat, I also see my comment was removed,lol
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:iconirishfury97:
Irishfury97 Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2014
Interesting. You certainly give a point of view I'm not used to. I used to date a girl who was slightly feminist, and being raised from a young age to be the perfect gentleman, it boggled me when she offered to pay for a date, didn't mind seeing me cry(of all the two or three times it happened), and even outright told me she hated my singing. Definitely food for thought.
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